Meeting Minutes for 13 May 2007

May 13 21:02:32 <BobJensen>    <meeting>
May 13 21:03:04 <BobJensen>    Welcome to the Fedora UNity Contributors Meeting for May 14, 2007
May 13 21:03:45 <Corwyn-Laptop>    <<May 13>>
May 13 21:03:56 <BobJensen>    Jon and I just returned form the Red Hat Summit where we presented a talk on Building Custom Fedora Distributions
May 13 21:03:58 <Southern_Gentlem>    utc is 14
May 13 21:04:55 <BobJensen>    We talked about the History of Fedora UNity, the tools we have used int he past and the three tools that we will use int he future
May 13 21:04:55 <Southern_Gentlem>    ?
May 13 21:05:06 <Southern_Gentlem>    -?
May 13 21:05:15 <BobJensen>    We also talked abotu Fedora UNity's Future
May 13 21:05:38 <BobJensen>    The Talk was well received
May 13 21:05:54 <BobJensen>    People are really excited about Revisor
May 13 21:06:40 <BobJensen>    as am I, However the work on revisor has just begun, we also need to help with the upstream tools that revisor uses Pungi and LiveCD-Tools
May 13 21:07:14 <BobJensen>    there are many Documentation items that we can help with if we are non-technical types
May 13 21:07:31 <Battleaxe>    Good night all
May 13 21:07:39 <kanarip>    nn Battleaxe
May 13 21:07:41 *    Battleaxe has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]")
May 13 21:08:26 <BobJensen>    Revisor, Pungi, RPM and Packaging are several areas that the community can benefit from documentation
May 13 21:08:35 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:08:35 <BobJensen>    and Q uestions aboutt he summit?
May 13 21:08:42 <BobJensen>    kanarip GA
May 13 21:08:44 <kanarip>    if there's anything I can help with... ;-)
May 13 21:08:45 <kanarip>    OEF
May 13 21:08:48 <kanarip>    EOF
May 13 21:08:52 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:09:01 <BobJensen>    kanarip: Keep up the awesome work on Revisor
May 13 21:09:24 <BobJensen>    kanarip: Don't let Jon drag you off course or let things stagnate
May 13 21:09:24 <kanarip>    yes sir, thank you sir
May 13 21:09:34 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:09:40 <Southern_Gentlem>    http://spevack.livejournal.com/14639.html
May 13 21:09:53 <Southern_Gentlem>    looks like Max likes what we are doing
May 13 21:09:56 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
May 13 21:09:59 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:10:14 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:10:30 <kanarip>    ohw, he does, i'm sure
May 13 21:10:32 <Southern_Gentlem>    and does it appear that we may get the upsteam help for livecd creator
May 13 21:10:38 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
May 13 21:10:48 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:10:58 <BobJensen>    Yes Jon had a very productive talk with David about that
May 13 21:11:33 <BobJensen>    something kanarip and I were not able to do
May 13 21:11:38 <BobJensen>    kanarip GA
May 13 21:11:40 <kanarip>    i've experienced that "upstream help" is a just matter of our patches to upstream getting accepted
May 13 21:12:02 <kanarip>    no more, eg. no help in our targets
May 13 21:12:13 <kanarip>    i hope that improves now
May 13 21:12:14 <kanarip>    EOF
May 13 21:12:34 <BobJensen>    Now one thign that was discussed at the future of Fedora, Jon and I were in this meeting
May 13 21:12:53 <BobJensen>    these things are not final
May 13 21:13:12 <BobJensen>    but they are going to shoot for timed based releases
May 13 21:13:20 <BobJensen>    Oct31 and May1
May 13 21:13:41 <BobJensen>    these are pretty much set for F8 and F9
May 13 21:14:16 <BobJensen>    also there is talk about the next US FUDCon prob. in Feb
May 13 21:14:44 <Southern_Gentlem>    cool
May 13 21:14:54 <BobJensen>    maybe one in August... but doubtful for this year
May 13 21:15:27 <BobJensen>    Fedora is going to try to stick to the schedule
May 13 21:15:49 <BobJensen>    so if F8 does not come out until late Nov, we eat the loss
May 13 21:16:04 <BobJensen>    meaning that May 1 is still the target
May 13 21:16:10 <BobJensen>    for F9
May 13 21:16:20 <kanarip>    nice
May 13 21:16:41 <BobJensen>    any questions about Fedora's Future?
May 13 21:16:45 <Southern_Gentlem>    hopefully livna will be ready for the f7 release
May 13 21:16:49 <kanarip>    yes
May 13 21:16:56 <BobJensen>    kanarip GA
May 13 21:17:10 <kanarip>    are we mingling in the discussions from the desktop-team for example, about what features need to be in F8?
May 13 21:17:39 <kanarip>    one of those is moving from system-config-network towards networkmanager, and pretty important to me personally
May 13 21:17:45 <BobJensen>    kanarip: these items were posted about the time that we had out meeting and most of us were not aware of them
May 13 21:18:03 <kanarip>    there's lots of other things though I think we have an opinion on
May 13 21:18:31 <BobJensen>    With Fedora moving to the Community side of things, some changes you all will notice
May 13 21:18:53 <BobJensen>    there will be more goals that are flexible and targeted
May 13 21:19:01 <kanarip>    and now the time has come to do the feature dance, maybe it's also our opportunity to add feature / enhancements requests from what we hear about community annoyances?
May 13 21:19:11 <BobJensen>    there will be leaders taking ownership for these goals
May 13 21:19:46 <BobJensen>    if there is something you want to see we need to get the features targeted and help find or take ownership of them
May 13 21:19:49 <kanarip>    EOF, btw
May 13 21:19:59 <kanarip>    yeah, that's my point
May 13 21:20:02 <kanarip>    the dance has started
May 13 21:20:35 <BobJensen>    I personally have several items that I am going to be taking ownership of
May 13 21:20:42 <kanarip>    so i'm taking part in networkmanager and i'm adding a scripting framework (together with StylusEater)
May 13 21:21:14 <BobJensen>    We need to help with Pungi and Revisor documentation
May 13 21:21:29 <BobJensen>    I will be taking the lead on these
May 13 21:21:37 <kanarip>    i've made a little start already since not all of us have rawhide machines
May 13 21:21:39 <BobJensen>    if you are interested let me know
May 13 21:21:52 <kanarip>    if you need a rawhide box let bob know
May 13 21:21:54 <BobJensen>    I am also kicking around the idea of a book
May 13 21:21:56 <kanarip>    he'll let me know ;-)
May 13 21:21:58 <Southern_Gentlem>    of course we will help
May 13 21:22:09 <BobJensen>    RPM and Packaging
May 13 21:22:18 <Southern_Gentlem>    after all revisor is a unity project
May 13 21:22:23 <kanarip>    that i can help with too bob
May 13 21:22:52 <BobJensen>    there is a large stash in the Docs CVS for RPM and also all the Packaging stuff from the wiki
May 13 21:23:14 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:23:22 <BobJensen>    I have a feeling these two items could be brought together as a detailed book
May 13 21:23:32 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:23:45 <kanarip>    and then there's also https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/pyrpm
May 13 21:24:10 <Southern_Gentlem>    also think we need some howtos on our site on revisor and setting up local mirrors eof
May 13 21:24:23 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: BTW yes you are correct Revisor IS a UNity project
May 13 21:24:34 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: Good Point
May 13 21:24:53 <BobJensen>    we also need to take a few days to refine the repo-sync tool
May 13 21:25:02 <BobJensen>    and also find a real name for it
May 13 21:25:18 <BobJensen>    get it packaged and put in to Fedora
May 13 21:25:24 <kanarip>    will we have like a todo list for fedora unity members?
May 13 21:25:47 <BobJensen>    kanarip: Yes in the comming week I will be putting something up
May 13 21:25:55 <kanarip>    nice
May 13 21:26:11 <BobJensen>    we will need to help roadmap the revisor tool also for the future
May 13 21:26:34 <BobJensen>    Anything else on the above?
May 13 21:26:47 <kanarip>    nope
May 13 21:27:00 <BobJensen>    I think those items are abotu closed
May 13 21:27:13 <Southern_Gentlem>    0
May 13 21:27:17 <BobJensen>    Now we have two nagging items on unity stuff
May 13 21:27:34 <BobJensen>    First is the infrastructure bits
May 13 21:27:39 <Southern_Gentlem>    not closed just finished discussion for tonight
May 13 21:27:41 <BobJensen>    second is the NPO
May 13 21:27:47 <Corwyn-Laptop>    !!!
May 13 21:27:57 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop GA
May 13 21:28:49 <Corwyn-Laptop>    actually, first should be NPO. with regards to any infrastructure issues, except as interim moves, NPO needs to be established.
May 13 21:29:03 <Corwyn-Laptop>    eof
May 13 21:29:13 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
May 13 21:29:21 <kanarip>    we seem to agree on that
May 13 21:29:23 <BobJensen>    well actually
May 13 21:29:56 <BobJensen>    seeing that the NPO is not a reality yet the infrastructure bits can be handled with a simple statement
May 13 21:30:55 <BobJensen>    At this time I personally am 100% responsible for all of our content
May 13 21:31:14 <BobJensen>    the domain names were registed to me
May 13 21:31:16 <Corwyn-Laptop>    ?
May 13 21:31:33 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:31:48 <BobJensen>    the content on the domains as a result are my responsibility legally
May 13 21:32:06 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop GA
May 13 21:32:44 <Corwyn-Laptop>    I think you need to clarify what that means.
May 13 21:32:46 <Corwyn-Laptop>    eof
May 13 21:33:30 <BobJensen>    kanarip GA
May 13 21:34:00 <kanarip>    from a legal perspective, the domain owner legal entity is legally responsible for all site content
May 13 21:34:26 <kanarip>    that'll never change no matter if it's an NPO, or it's hosted abroad, whatever
May 13 21:34:28 <kanarip>    EOF
May 13 21:34:37 <BobJensen>    OK
May 13 21:35:04 <BobJensen>    If people like those that own the MP3 patents go looking for someone to sue it will be me
May 13 21:35:21 <BobJensen>    I am willing to accept that\
May 13 21:35:32 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen, so would you make your point
May 13 21:36:05 <BobJensen>    Once the NPO is done we will be making infrastructure changes and transfer the domains to the NPO
May 13 21:36:20 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
May 13 21:36:32 <Corwyn-Laptop>    +1
May 13 21:36:48 <BobJensen>    until the NPO is done sometime this summer I think it would be silly to move our stuff twice
May 13 21:37:12 <BobJensen>    Jon assures me he has some backup stuff lined up
May 13 21:37:45 *    devhen|Work has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
May 13 21:37:50 <BobJensen>    at somepoint in the next week or two at most we will be rebuilding the Host that we are using for the UNity Guests
May 13 21:38:08 <Corwyn-Laptop>    !
May 13 21:38:11 <BobJensen>    this will help all of us feel a lot more secure
May 13 21:38:18 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen, after 2 times now losing stuff we need offsite backups which were discussed the last time we had a major crash
May 13 21:38:22 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop GA
May 13 21:38:38 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: that is part of the plan
May 13 21:38:43 <Corwyn-Laptop>    please make sure you have complete, tested backups before proceeding with that rebuild
May 13 21:38:45 <Corwyn-Laptop>    eof
May 13 21:38:58 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:39:11 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: Yes the replication will be tested before moveing forward with that
May 13 21:39:15 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:40:00 <Southern_Gentlem>    myself i would like to see offisite backups to like jon, scott,steve and myself
May 13 21:40:15 <Corwyn-Laptop>    +1
May 13 21:40:17 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:40:26 <Southern_Gentlem>    at least weekly in a round robin fashion
May 13 21:40:27 <BobJensen>    Jon and I are communicating a lot better about the backups, I do not see it being an issue just a matter of time
May 13 21:40:30 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
May 13 21:40:46 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:40:54 <BobJensen>    kanarip GA
May 13 21:41:28 <kanarip>    offsite backups not really need to be distributed live, off-machine realtime backups could be distributed afterwards
May 13 21:41:42 <Southern_Gentlem>    kanarip,  yes
May 13 21:41:59 <Corwyn-Laptop>    !
May 13 21:42:03 <kanarip>    but, from a technical point of view, it wouldn't make sense to backup to people that have no control over, say, DNS settings, they cannot set up another host
May 13 21:42:03 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:42:12 <kanarip>    EOF
May 13 21:42:34 <Southern_Gentlem>    i am sorry i want a backup solution in place before the machine is rebuilt
May 13 21:42:38 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
May 13 21:42:45 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: that is the plan
May 13 21:43:13 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: however some of what Jon and I have talked about this week can not happen until the host is rebuilt
May 13 21:43:32 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: So it will be a three part process
May 13 21:43:51 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: Basic backups of the data that work and are tested
May 13 21:44:04 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: rebuild the host at that point
May 13 21:44:12 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen,  make a backup and open it up to rsync for us to grab
May 13 21:44:29 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: then expand the back up solution to include LVM snapshotting
May 13 21:45:15 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: Jon and I are looking at several things and have not settled on any one technology yet
May 13 21:45:34 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: in the next week or three you will have more info
May 13 21:45:43 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop GA
May 13 21:45:45 <Corwyn-Laptop>    as long as we have secure off site backups, incase the servers burn or Bob's house burns down (worst case scenario stuff)
May 13 21:46:06 <Corwyn-Laptop>    kanarip, if needed, I run my own DNS, real world facing
May 13 21:46:07 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: that is exactly what we are going for
May 13 21:46:12 <Southern_Gentlem>    !
May 13 21:46:14 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:46:21 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:46:24 <Corwyn-Laptop>    I can have a colocated server up and running if needed in less than a day
May 13 21:46:28 <Corwyn-Laptop>    I'm not done
May 13 21:46:35 <BobJensen>    oops
May 13 21:46:37 <BobJensen>    Sorry
May 13 21:46:38 <Corwyn-Laptop>    as can any of us
May 13 21:46:42 <Corwyn-Laptop>    ;p
May 13 21:46:44 <Southern_Gentlem>    make the motion that we have a working backup procedure by june 1st 2007
May 13 21:46:45 <Corwyn-Laptop>    eof
May 13 21:46:52 <Southern_Gentlem>    eof
May 13 21:47:17 <BobJensen>    There will be no such motion
May 13 21:47:27 <Southern_Gentlem>    the motion is on the floor
May 13 21:47:39 <BobJensen>    We are working out several ideas
May 13 21:47:49 <Southern_Gentlem>    by roberts rules of order it must be voted on  by the membership
May 13 21:48:01 <Southern_Gentlem>    if seconded
May 13 21:48:11 <Sonar_Guy>    Southern_Gentlem: -1
May 13 21:48:11 <BobJensen>    Why put a deadline on it when we are not 100% sure of how we want to do things yet, there are details to be worked out
May 13 21:48:19 <Sonar_Gal>    Southern_Gentlem, -1
May 13 21:48:49 <BobJensen>    I already said in a week or 3 we will have a plan in place
May 13 21:48:50 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen,  because the backup that are going on now are non existant
May 13 21:49:04 <StylusEater_Home>    !
May 13 21:49:20 <BobJensen>    and we are backing up the PLane bits now
May 13 21:49:33 *    nman64_away has quit (Remote closed the connection)
May 13 21:49:33 <BobJensen>    we can do this with out taking the sites offline
May 13 21:49:48 <BobJensen>    StylusEater_Home GA
May 13 21:49:58 <kanarip>    i was first
May 13 21:50:12 <BobJensen>    kanarip: So you were
May 13 21:50:14 *    nman64_away (n=n-man@fedora/nman64) has joined #fedora-unity
May 13 21:50:14 <StylusEater_Home>    cedes floor to kanarip
May 13 21:50:34 <StylusEater_Home>    eof
May 13 21:50:44 <kanarip>    if we're not sure what backup technology to use yet, i'd certainly like to hear the plan before it's golden
May 13 21:51:06 <BobJensen>    kanarip: I am sure we will all be talking about it
May 13 21:51:07 <kanarip>    second, i want the mailing lists we had up and running before the backup is being made
May 13 21:51:33 <kanarip>    it's taking too long to recover them
May 13 21:51:36 <kanarip>    EOF
May 13 21:51:39 <BobJensen>    kanarip: that is a Jon item I beleive he has a bug for that
May 13 21:51:49 <BobJensen>    StylusEater_Home GA
May 13 21:51:49 <StylusEater_Home>    !
May 13 21:51:50 <Sonar_Guy>    !
May 13 21:52:08 <kanarip>    !
May 13 21:52:21 <StylusEater_Home>    I know I walked in halfway through...sorry...but if I'm not mistaken (please correct if I am) fedora-unity has a few machines
May 13 21:52:37 <BobJensen>    StylusEater_Home: 2
May 13 21:52:57 <StylusEater_Home>    is one hosted by Fedora Infra and the other by you bob?
May 13 21:53:11 <BobJensen>    StylusEater_Home: none are hosted by "them"
May 13 21:53:21 <StylusEater_Home>    ok...how much content do we have on each?
May 13 21:53:33 <BobJensen>    StylusEater_Home: why does that matter?
May 13 21:53:35 <StylusEater_Home>    size wise would it not be feasible to take incremental dvd backups?
May 13 21:53:41 <BobJensen>    No
May 13 21:53:44 <StylusEater_Home>    ok
May 13 21:53:48 <StylusEater_Home>    eof
May 13 21:53:57 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy GA
May 13 21:53:59 <Sonar_Guy>    Everybody take a step back and let cooler heads prevail, This is a good plan and will ultimately make it easier to do back ups and allow for the migration of the sites to the new infrastructure.
May 13 21:54:14 <Sonar_Guy>    Everbody is getting hung up on details at this point.
May 13 21:54:31 <Sonar_Guy>    We need to rebuild the Host server to ensure a stable machine,
May 13 21:54:59 <Southern_Gentlem>    +1
May 13 21:55:01 <Sonar_Guy>    and to include the backup plan that Jon has been working on and testing on his personal servers.
May 13 21:55:49 <Sonar_Guy>    From what he has explained to me the backup will be incremental backup daily that work much better and quicker than the plan we had before.
May 13 21:56:12 *    devhen|Work (n=devhen@66.119.143.160) has joined #fedora-unity
May 13 21:56:27 <Sonar_Guy>    To do backups in the past the sites had to go down for far too long to do anything other than weekly or monthly backups.
May 13 21:56:30 <Southern_Gentlem>    ?
May 13 21:56:31 <BobJensen>    the main thing is to get a week's worth of backups that we can test before we do any temp deployment while we rebuild the host
May 13 21:56:50 <Sonar_Guy>    This new plan will correct this and make daily incremental backups with less time.
May 13 21:57:34 <Sonar_Guy>    As far as adding the lost lists at this point it would take up valuable time from Jon on Revisor and the Backup plan so they should wait till
May 13 21:57:50 <Sonar_Guy>    The server is rebuilt and the new backup plan is in place.
May 13 21:57:51 <Sonar_Guy>    EOF
May 13 21:57:58 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem GA
May 13 21:58:03 <kanarip>    hey!
May 13 21:58:03 <BobJensen>    Thanks Sonar_Guy
May 13 21:58:14 <Sonar_Guy>    np
May 13 21:58:17 <BobJensen>    kanarip: oops again
May 13 21:58:22 <Southern_Gentlem>    -!
May 13 21:58:28 <BobJensen>    kanarip: GA
May 13 21:58:28 <kanarip>    is it really still just jon that can do the kind of stuff he does with the servers, like the mailing lists?
May 13 21:58:35 *    Southern_Gentlem has quit ("Leaving")
May 13 21:58:41 <BobJensen>    kanarip: we are also working on that
May 13 21:58:43 <StylusEater_Home>    kanarip +1
May 13 21:58:54 <kanarip>    EOF, then
May 13 21:59:33 <BobJensen>    kanarip: we need to increase our flexibility, and broaden our resources
May 13 22:00:05 <BobJensen>    kanarip: as we redeploy the new host we want to make some changes that will make it easier for several of us to do things
May 13 22:00:08 <Sonar_Guy>    kanarip: +1
May 13 22:00:14 *    Southern_Gentlem (n=nofred@unaffiliated/Southern-Gentlem) has joined #fedora-unity
May 13 22:00:23 <BobJensen>    kanarip: one item is to move DNS to the UNity Guest
May 13 22:00:52 <BobJensen>    the master
May 13 22:01:09 <BobJensen>    that way as we need DNS info changed we can
May 13 22:01:44 <BobJensen>    also I want to do some DNS sharing with you guys, I do slaves for you, you do slaves for me/us
May 13 22:02:02 <BobJensen>    that should help us all
May 13 22:02:09 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
May 13 22:02:26 <BobJensen>    anything else? Southern_Gentlem did you have another item?
May 13 22:02:39 <Southern_Gentlem>    not tonight
May 13 22:03:13 <BobJensen>    OK, all I can do is ask that you have faith that Jon and I are working on a viable solution that we talked over with Sonar_Guy
May 13 22:03:24 <Sonar_Guy>    !
May 13 22:03:52 <BobJensen>    I don't have all the notes and details in front of me, and some of the ideas will not be very easy so we are looking for other solutions
May 13 22:04:23 <BobJensen>    as we have questiosn and updates we plan on talkign to you all about the progress and helping us find answers
May 13 22:04:34 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy GA
May 13 22:04:42 <Sonar_Guy>    I do think that anybody that has any concerns needs to voice them either here or on the mailing lists.  I also think we need to setup a topic on the unity sites that shows the planning and is open for discussion. EOF
May 13 22:05:26 <Corwyn-Laptop>    +1 Sonar_Guy
May 13 22:05:57 <BobJensen>    Sonar_Guy: that is part of my plan to get info on the site. I just need to sit down with Jon and see how some of the things we learned and saw at the summit might apply to our needs
May 13 22:06:08 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
May 13 22:06:08 <Corwyn-Laptop>    ?
May 13 22:06:15 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop GA
May 13 22:06:43 <Corwyn-Laptop>    I know this is a sore point, but it's been mentioned, but I'll be the one to ask it....
May 13 22:07:09 <Corwyn-Laptop>    we've had a task item for doing backups....do we have any current functional backups?
May 13 22:07:11 <Corwyn-Laptop>    eof
May 13 22:07:51 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: we did a back up of the plone/zope files before we left
May 13 22:08:05 <Corwyn-Laptop>    tested and verified?
May 13 22:08:09 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: there are some more bits I want to add to that backup
May 13 22:08:29 <BobJensen>    like the LDAP, mail server and mailman
May 13 22:08:45 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: I honestly did not ask Jon that
May 13 22:08:52 <BobJensen>    Corwyn-Laptop: But I will be
May 13 22:08:57 <Corwyn-Laptop>    ok, thank you
May 13 22:09:15 <BobJensen>    We had a great talk with the VMware guys BTW, looks like we may be getting some help from them
May 13 22:09:59 <BobJensen>    potentially even licenses of their supported software for those of us that could use it
May 13 22:10:20 <BobJensen>    also talked with RackSpace about Hosting
May 13 22:10:36 <BobJensen>    so the summit was a good thing for unity
May 13 22:10:42 <Sonar_Guy>    +1
May 13 22:10:48 <BobJensen>    any other items?
May 13 22:10:49 <Corwyn-Laptop>    +1
May 13 22:11:03 <Harley-D>    +1
May 13 22:11:04 <BobJensen>    we are over our hour limit
May 13 22:11:08 <Southern_Gentlem>    open floor
May 13 22:11:19 <BobJensen>    Sure Open Floor
May 13 22:11:20 <Sonar_Guy>    Southern_Gentlem: +1
May 13 22:12:36 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen,  if we have another crash and loose data again we will not be able to recover. and i for one do not want to go crawl the google cache agian
May 13 22:12:52 <Sonar_Guy>    Southern_Gentlem: +1
May 13 22:12:58 <kanarip>    if we have another crash i'm done for
May 13 22:13:27 <Southern_Gentlem>    if that happens i am walking away
May 13 22:13:32 <Corwyn-Laptop>    Southern_Gentlem, +1
May 13 22:13:35 <BobJensen>    I don't think any of us want to have another crash, that is why we want to get things working the best we can
May 13 22:14:28 <Southern_Gentlem>    BobJensen,  we had a discussion on the one year annisversy crash why hasnt there been a backup plan in place before now
May 13 22:14:48 <StylusEater_Home>    good night everyone
May 13 22:14:58 <kanarip>    nn StylusEater
May 13 22:15:03 <Corwyn-Laptop>    I believe we're all in agreement regarding the ramifications of any more crash related data loss.
May 13 22:15:06 <BobJensen>    Because the backups were painful we need a better way
May 13 22:15:17 <StylusEater_Home>    kanarip: before I go...get my msg?
May 13 22:15:25 <kanarip>    msg where?
May 13 22:15:28 <BobJensen>    the current method sucks rocks
May 13 22:15:33 <StylusEater_Home>    irc
May 13 22:15:46 <kanarip>    nope, not really
May 13 22:15:47 <Southern_Gentlem>    yes backups are painful but it is not a near as painful as losing everythin
May 13 22:15:59 <StylusEater_Home>    I'll post in devel...
May 13 22:16:03 <kanarip>    sure
May 13 22:16:40 <BobJensen>    Southern_Gentlem: once we get a couple ground work things sorted out it will work a lot better
May 13 22:17:24 <Corwyn-Laptop>    and we'll have offsite backups as well?
May 13 22:17:32 <Sonar_Guy>    yes
May 13 22:17:47 <Corwyn-Laptop>    ok, let's geterdone
May 13 22:17:53 <BobJensen>    I really need to get going, have not seen the family in most of a week
May 13 22:18:10 <Southern_Gentlem>    motion to close
May 13 22:18:15 <Corwyn-Laptop>    second
May 13 22:18:22 <Sonar_Guy>    btw, sorry I was late to the meeting.
May 13 22:18:31 <Sonar_Guy>    close +1
May 13 22:18:33 <Corwyn-Laptop>    2 demerits
May 13 22:18:34 <BobJensen>    </meeting>